tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16010478.post18744971402118173..comments2024-03-22T02:57:20.853-07:00Comments on Center of Gravitas: DatingGayProfhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11289510184782252498noreply@blogger.comBlogger33125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16010478.post-72564873801312252962007-12-05T08:36:00.000-08:002007-12-05T08:36:00.000-08:00I think it is hard to think about these things bec...I think it is hard to think about these things because it isn't just that couple-dom is a cultural ideal, but singleness is pathologized. Thus, the notion of not wanting to merge your life with another person, and compromise on all the most difficult things in life, is seen as not very (ahem) mature. Or Responsible.<BR/><BR/>I don;t know anything about your last relationship other than what you said here, but a lot of couples stay together because they are willing to lie and to accept each others' lies. And I'm not sure that is even so wrong -- but it's not for everyone.<BR/><BR/>I think the polyamory people have a lot to say to all of us -- I couldn't bear to live in such an emotionally intense way as they do, but they do keep all the most difficult questions about relationships alive in ways the rest of us -- single and coupled --refuse to, and I really admire them for that.<BR/><BR/>Having really good friends matters a lot.<BR/><BR/>xo,<BR/><BR/>TRTenured Radicalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05703980598547163290noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16010478.post-57801763050489306982007-11-29T23:00:00.000-08:002007-11-29T23:00:00.000-08:00It's all so fucking hard.Oh. Pardon me. I just cu...It's all so fucking hard.<BR/><BR/>Oh. <BR/><BR/>Pardon me. I just cursed, didn't I?<BR/><BR/>There was a time when I so enjoyed the hook-ups. Every weekend I'd have some great story to tell. I was having a good time.<BR/><BR/>I think I'd love them still, but I have to get up early,and walk my dog, and you know... my house is too messy for anyone to come over...<BR/><BR/>At this point, I would like one of two things: either a ready-made, LTR I don't have to do any of the prep work for (Yeah, I know, but I can dream) or a cadre of friends in the same boat as mine. You know, a crew of single folks. <BR/><BR/>This winter is going to be long and cold.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16010478.post-18492454546106075352007-11-28T11:23:00.000-08:002007-11-28T11:23:00.000-08:00Nice post,and nicely parsed too. I really can't sa...Nice post,and nicely parsed too. I really can't say more now, but the resonance of the challenges you trace here certainly hit home, in relationship to a lot of things that are happening chez moi at this moment. It is complicated, it is hard, it is unclear, but the best place is to know thyself, and go with it, whatever that may be. And learn, too, from experience.Oso Rarohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11345231159759787852noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16010478.post-59875130506702631712007-11-28T04:22:00.000-08:002007-11-28T04:22:00.000-08:00Since my relocation, I have nothing to contribute ...Since my relocation, I have nothing to contribute to this issue.<BR/><BR/>Nothing.<BR/><BR/>Another element of gay dating, I'm afraid.Parishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10724364909872924908noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16010478.post-74244889059978801512007-11-28T03:12:00.000-08:002007-11-28T03:12:00.000-08:00I have had the great fortune to struggle over this...I have had the great fortune to struggle over this issue with both sexes (he says with extra sarcasm). I dated women to try to get into a LTR so I wouldn't look gay, then I had men as FBs so I wouldn't look gay even though I was and wanted a LTR with a man! Thank God I finally got out of the 80's and became me. I have screwed up a few LTRs in my day and enjoyed a few FB situations, but at the end of the day, you gotta be happy where you are at now.M-Dubhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08679808249394618203noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16010478.post-77876608625878669922007-11-27T23:46:00.000-08:002007-11-27T23:46:00.000-08:00Either we are the same person, or we are so perfec...Either we are the same person, or we are so perfect for each other that we should commence affectionate, liberally naked, unpressured dating immediately.<BR/><BR/>The ideology of romance is so powerful that even you begin to offer reasons for your current desires toward the end of your post. You historians and your iron law of causation... ;-) The line between reason and justification is so dotted that I try not to give reasons any more for my low LTR desire when asked (which I am constantly, being the hot and brilliant boy that I am). It's just not what I want right now, nor has it been for much of my adult life.<BR/><BR/>The obvious rub (hee) is that it's easier to change your mind later in the direction of less rather than more commitment. I don't often worry that I'm passing up Mr. Right, but I do worry that in the future I may want an LTR even though I don't so much right now. I guess I'll burn that bridge when I get to it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16010478.post-7286332126091505882007-11-27T19:18:00.000-08:002007-11-27T19:18:00.000-08:00My point in the marriage comment simply is that si...My point in the marriage comment simply is that since gay men and women could not marry, that became in some cases, an excuse to avoid commitment or any form of LTR.<BR/><BR/>It also means that any form of gay commitment still is and has always been viewed as "less" than marriage.<BR/><BR/>Yes, it will be interesting to see how that changes over time in MA.Marlanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12745233664259989973noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16010478.post-21035652595665171392007-11-27T12:10:00.000-08:002007-11-27T12:10:00.000-08:00At this point in my life I don't know what to do. ...At this point in my life I don't know what to do. As an Aristotelian ideal, the LTR beckons, but I don't trust myself to make proper judgments while I still work through my not-so-recent breakup. At the same time, the idea of hook-ups is emotionally repellent to me, and if I'm not emotionally connected, FBs get tiresome quickly. That leaves me with precious few options. And a tired right arm.dpastehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10813652943621759603noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16010478.post-28037492577889430842007-11-27T11:23:00.000-08:002007-11-27T11:23:00.000-08:00I have to say that I'm basically in the first cate...I have to say that I'm basically in the first category, which might explain why no relationship before my ex lasted longer than 2 months. After 4.5 years in what turned out to be an emotionally abusive relationship with the ex, I moved back to Maine with no real intent of jumping back into anything. There were a couple hookups that were incredibly hot and exactly what my ego needed, and then I started seeing my current partner. I think the fact that we were both kind of tentative at first (he knew my whole sordid history) actually gave us the space we needed to let the friendship grow first (though we got around to the sex part within a few weeks). The sex may not carry quite the same rush as a hookup, but for me it's more satisfying.Melhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18047049720897209506noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16010478.post-84842597450576116272007-11-27T10:13:00.000-08:002007-11-27T10:13:00.000-08:00"Of those three, Midwestern Funky Town is dominate..."Of those three, Midwestern Funky Town is dominated by those seeking a LTR (preferably with an individual who enjoys camping)."<BR/><BR/>LOL. That made me laugh. :) Take heart! At least you'll be spared the camping conversations for the next 5 or 6 (or 7) months. ;)<BR/><BR/>Watching from the sidelines, it seems to me that MFT is also dominated by those seeking a LTR who are <22 years old. Or older guys who are seeking a LTR with guys who are <22 years old. Seriously though, the "Logan's Run" aspect of living in a college town appears to have pretty dramatic effects on dating, from my observations. Not to mention, the effects of the transience of college towns, as you've only got a few years, at best, before the person you're dating is likely to graduate, or finish their post-doc, or get hired at another institution, etc.Alanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16274395216929104919noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16010478.post-84716192182552058212007-11-27T09:53:00.000-08:002007-11-27T09:53:00.000-08:00Chad: Stumbling into intimacy is better than no in...<B>Chad:</B> Stumbling into intimacy is better than no intimacy.<BR/><BR/><B>James:</B> I think the theory has some merit. Given that young people are coming out in their teens in larger numbers, I wonder if this will remain true.<BR/><BR/><B>Doug:</B> It is really strange that so many of us presume to know how other people think.<BR/><BR/><B>Steven:</B> It's tough out there. Eventually, though, I think that we all find what we are looking to find.<BR/><BR/><B>Michael:</B> Yeah, sometimes I am concerned that I will fall into the "turning down Mr.Right" category. This gives me pause.<BR/><BR/><B>Dr. Crazy:</B> Yeah, many of my single straight friends report similar frustrations.<BR/><BR/><B>Pacalaga:</B> It's funny you should mention Buddhism as the current beau studies it. This does not seem to alter the heavy investment in the future.<BR/><BR/><B>CoffeeDog:</B> I wanted to steer clear of the lesbian angle because it's such a terrible stereotype. Now that you mentioned it, though. . .<BR/><BR/><B>Earl:</B> Oh.My.God. I think that I am replicating your life. Certainly I think of myself as having gotten into "situations." I wonder if this means that I will later become a birder.<BR/><BR/><B>Antonio:</B> Hey, at least you -- or, er -- your friend actually went on the date before having sex.<BR/><BR/><B>Artistic:</B> Sort-of dating for two years seems so much more reasonable.<BR/><BR/><B>Sarah:</B> I agree that if somebody pushes for a relationship right away they are more interested in the relationship than in the actual person in front of them.<BR/><BR/><B>Marlan:</B> I am not sure I see the legal status of marriage impacting gay men's imaginings of the future. Although, I would suggest that Boston had some gay men who were seriously invested in marriage since it was legal.<BR/><BR/><B>Baron:</B> I don't think people who want a LTR are bad. In many ways, I would put myself in that category. What makes me nervous, however, is the people who want a LTR without thinking things through or taking things slowly.<BR/><BR/><B>ROG:</B> Yeah, being in a couple is much easier than dating. I think that is why many bad relationships continue for so long (including, perhaps, my own dreadful LTR).<BR/><BR/><B>Maggie:</B> Wise and cute. Just sayin'.<BR/><BR/><B>Marius:</B> I for sure wouldn't consider myself an extrovert. Still, I think there is a way to date without always thinking in LTR-terms.<BR/><BR/><B>Adjunct:</B> I didn't intend to make too many generalizations about the heteros. Rather, it just seems (from the outside) that the pressure and expecation for a LTR (with children) is much greater for heteros. I know that real individuals make numerous other choices about organizing their personal life.<BR/><BR/><B>Hermit:</B> I am not sure I understand the question. Is this "Can two single gay men be friends without sleeping with each other at some point?" Or are you feeling pressure to sleep with somebody just to have their friendship? If the latter, screw them (but not literally).<BR/><BR/><B>DykeWife:</B> It will probably be easier to find that person when I decide exactly what I want myself.<BR/><BR/><B>Bryce:</B> Thanks!<BR/><BR/><B>BardElf:</B> Yeah, I knew of Garbo's correction. Still, why should we bother with what somebody actually said when the myth is so much better?GayProfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11289510184782252498noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16010478.post-29365361672500240832007-11-27T07:17:00.000-08:002007-11-27T07:17:00.000-08:00Isn't life delightfully complex? Sometimes the be...Isn't life delightfully complex? Sometimes the best moments, the best relationships, just come from out of the blue.<BR/><BR/>Thanks for mentioning Garbo. As you probably know, until she died she always claimed that she had been misquoted. Being hounded by reporters at every turn, she says that her line was, "I want to be LET alone".bardelfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12917187131771750315noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16010478.post-79134648348661128582007-11-26T23:01:00.000-08:002007-11-26T23:01:00.000-08:00What a great blog.What a great blog.Bryce Digdughttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06495929818276168084noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16010478.post-15427546535891622912007-11-26T19:58:00.000-08:002007-11-26T19:58:00.000-08:00aside from not really liking people that much, one...aside from not really liking people that much, one of the many reasons i'm not out looking for that perfect woman is because of the old joke about what the car is on a lesbian's second date...a u-haul.<BR/><BR/>i think that perhaps the older a person gets, regardless of what their sexual orientation is, the desire, or perhaps the pressure is to "settle down" to that one special someone. <BR/><BR/>after that 8 years with your ex, i don't blame you in the least for not wanting to dance into another tango like that.<BR/><BR/>good luck in finding someone who wants what you want. i'll keep my toes crossed for you.dykewifehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17776768691386493709noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16010478.post-13660531988522309722007-11-26T19:07:00.000-08:002007-11-26T19:07:00.000-08:00As long as your sort of on the subject, what I rea...As long as your sort of on the subject, what I really want to know is why does it seem like I have to take someone to bed before we can be "just friends" ?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16010478.post-18322892577051249402007-11-26T17:19:00.000-08:002007-11-26T17:19:00.000-08:00you are funny and articulate and clearly aware of ...you are funny and articulate and clearly aware of your own boundaries right now. you could say to first-date man: my first priority is finishing research project of doom. i don't know what this means for love/sex/friendship. if stabbing in dark is cool, jump in (or on:)<BR/><BR/>it hurts to have you lumping us straight people altogether though...we're not one gigantic group of simpletons racing for LTRs...fbs, somethin in between, this actually seems more common than LTRs.<BR/><BR/>& i completely agree with you: nothing is less attractive than the relationship questions at the start. go get a mail order bride/hunk...methinks you need someone smarter and a bit darker, like say another dr.??gwoertendykehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00542058287462910446noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16010478.post-6468213252684275002007-11-26T14:47:00.000-08:002007-11-26T14:47:00.000-08:00Great post. I'm more of an LTR kind of guy, I gues...Great post. I'm more of an LTR kind of guy, I guess. However, I agree with Roger, some people may crave being in a LTR because it dating can be complicated. There are different personality types. Anxious people take fewer risks, and, if I had to guess, they probably seek fewer sexual partners. A friend of mine once confessed that dating was just too stressful. Other people are the exact opposite. They're extroverts and they love meeting new people. Human behavior is a fascinating topic.Mariushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14606970820680869047noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16010478.post-74540103142196178842007-11-26T12:36:00.000-08:002007-11-26T12:36:00.000-08:00Oh GayProf, you are so wise.That is all.Oh GayProf, you are so wise.<BR/><BR/>That is all.Margarethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03047700345491098393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16010478.post-32630800040261301662007-11-26T11:49:00.000-08:002007-11-26T11:49:00.000-08:00I suppose this may be obvious, but I think we tend...I suppose this may be obvious, but I think we tend to crave the LTR BECAUSE dating is complicated. At some level, I probably have.Roger Owen Greenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05298172138307632062noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16010478.post-60147154065575597022007-11-26T09:09:00.000-08:002007-11-26T09:09:00.000-08:00Well, I incline heavily towards monogamous LTR - s...Well, I incline heavily towards monogamous LTR - so let me say in a small voice that we're not all that bad...<BR/><BR/>I think it's because a very introspective nature and a very cautious personality. This means two things -<BR/><BR/>1) My inclinations are not a default reaction. The alternatives to an LTR would probably have a detrimental effect on me (I confess an open relationship would most likely provoke me to jealousy, for example). That being the case, I'm not prepared to risk things.<BR/><BR/>2) I am probably the slowest mover in romantic history. I might say at the beginning that I'd prefer an LTR, but it will be weeks and weeks before I feel confident enough to ask for one. This isn't just out of shyness - it's because in the meantime I'll have collated enough information about you to decide whether there's a possibility of the relationship going anywhere. Having a relationship simply for the sake of having a relationship seems horrendously misguided to me.<BR/><BR/>So, here's my little flag-waving for the LTR lot. Granted, I've probably just convinced you that if we aren't delusional we're merely insane, but I'd rather be insane.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16010478.post-60158166011798292842007-11-26T08:59:00.000-08:002007-11-26T08:59:00.000-08:00After six years in the gay world after a 20+ year ...After six years in the gay world after a 20+ year stint on the other side, I have no answers, but a few speculative thoughts on this grave subject. <BR/><BR/>1. The no-marriage rule in the gay world has had a profound influence on how we behave. Why "date" if there is no real future?<BR/>2. I'm can see where the FB to LTR thing works, but it also can be hard to accept if one or the other wants or doesn't want it to grow that way.<BR/>3. It gets worse as you get older--a bad combination of people who are not only set in their ways and abject desperation.<BR/><BR/>Finally, the gay (male) couples I know who remain together after many years seem to have handled the "monog/open" thing well. Kind of like the Clintons.Marlanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12745233664259989973noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16010478.post-9374280902630271772007-11-26T08:20:00.000-08:002007-11-26T08:20:00.000-08:00The other problem with those who push instantly fo...<I>The other problem with those who push instantly for a LTR is that I most often think that we don't really know each other. </I><BR/><BR/>I couldn't agree more. In fact, I think that pushing for a LTR right away is a sure sign that the person in question isn't ready for one. They're more interested in the idea of a relationship than they are in an actual relationship with you.<BR/><BR/>It sounds like (despite all the complicatedness) you are in a good place. Having a life outside of looking for a relationship (of whatever type) makes you infinitely more dateable than someone who doesn't. Hang in there!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16010478.post-13960595059243996922007-11-26T08:14:00.000-08:002007-11-26T08:14:00.000-08:00I am also weary of the LTR people. My current part...I am also weary of the LTR people. My current partner and I were "sort of dating" for two years before we even considered ourselves in a LTR -- and were dating other people throughout that period. The thing that always rubs me the wrong way about the LTR folk is similiar to what you said - they aren't that introspective about why they want the LTR. And as a result, they often believe that once they find the LTR, they will suddenly be "whole" or "fulfilled" in a way that they cannot be alone. So in a sense, it's like they're just trying to get in a relationship so as not to be alone -- which to me seems the wrong reason to get into a relationship.Artistic Soulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13263759059325566233noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16010478.post-76072029662228844462007-11-26T08:05:00.000-08:002007-11-26T08:05:00.000-08:00All of those categories definitely describe what I...All of those categories definitely describe what I've seen, except for the "wants a LTR, but gets too drunk on the first date and ends up in bed too soon". That definitely describes me, errr, a friend of mine.<BR/><BR/>I suspect part of the reason MFT's residents seek LTRs is that there isn't a large dating pool as it is (I'm assuming you don't live in a large city like, say, Chicago). If you go through several FBs, it won't be long until you run into someone who knows someone else you boinked. That gets awkward and earns you a "reputation". The city I live in has about 350,000 residents (including nearby cities pushes it up to about 700k). I started dating someone who moved here two months ago and he already new several acquaintances (thankfully I haven't hooked up with any of them)Antoniohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13551523252110967405noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16010478.post-22505241375267191412007-11-26T07:36:00.000-08:002007-11-26T07:36:00.000-08:00I've always found dating complicated in a Dungeons...I've always found dating complicated in a <I>Dungeons & Dragons</I> kind of way. You're going along easily enough and maybe even getting into it, and though there are all these rules and (short) equations and weird dice that you're not too sure about, you trust that your Dungeon Master knows the rules and equations and has enough experience not to let you die right off the bat.<BR/><BR/>(Sorry. I don't know what I meant up there. It made sense when I started.)<BR/><BR/>I used to joke that I wanted a bumper sticker (tee shirt, whatever) that read "Relationships happen." I tended to go on a date, and if I enjoyed myself, agree to another, and so on, until before long, Whammo! With my friends, I called them "situations". <I>"Looks like I've gotten myself into another situation."</I> Just because I enjoyed some guy's company didn't mean I wanted to buy my dream hilltop Victorian and pet yak with him. If it continued for more than a couple of months, we'd have to have the Situation Talk - never pleasant.<BR/><BR/>Ack, you've dredged up a lot of unsavory memories today, GayProf.Earl Cootiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13204523494279709530noreply@blogger.com