Comments on Center of Gravitas: Sexism in the City

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2009-03-16T00:34:00.000-07:00

Thank you for that.That beautiful photos… enchant ...

2008-06-18T09:07:00.000-07:00

Thank you for that.That beautiful photos… enchant to me… I must spend more times this way.
Thanks

Bulleyes Handsome ...

2008-06-16T06:52:00.000-07:00

Bulleyes Handsome ...

Mammy 3.0 = Hilarious and apt. I also agree with f...

2008-06-10T18:40:00.000-07:00

Mammy 3.0 = Hilarious and apt.

I also agree with frank's earlier point- the men in SATC (though I've only seen a few episodes) are treated as cardboard cutouts, objects to be ultimately owned in some way. This dovetails nicely with a reading of the series as the ultimate expression of capitalism: the shoes, the dresses, and finally the men are to be consumed competitively. Sex & The City(and, well, like all modern entertainment) just extends consumerism into the bedroom.

I'm no fun to watch movies with, either.

An interesting observation (as always!) CoG! But I...

2008-06-09T11:31:00.000-07:00

An interesting observation (as always!) CoG! But I think that I may have to see that big mean, green thing that's coming out instead. Oh, that's weird the way I said that....The Incredible "Gay" Hulk.

But I thought you were done with NERPOD? ;-) How far along art thou?

Historiann,Thanks! I am a big "Golden Girls" fan,...

2008-06-09T11:07:00.000-07:00

Historiann,

Thanks! I am a big "Golden Girls" fan, so I only had to watch several episodes to notice the parallels. The only iffy part is of course Carrie, but she really does seem to have a toned-down version of Dorothy's cynicism and Sophia's wry observations on the activities of the other characters (and arguably Blanche's unapologetic materialism as well). The irony, of course, is that the "Golden Girls", despite being the older and less "hip" show, was more daring and progressive than SATC was even in its heyday.

So what's so wrong about being a slut?

2008-06-08T22:24:00.000-07:00

So what's so wrong about being a slut?

I watched SATC throughout its run, but as time wen...

2008-06-08T18:19:00.000-07:00

I watched SATC throughout its run, but as time went on, and especially after it ended and I got to think about it in toto, the more problems I had with it. One of the reasons I don't want to go see the movie (though I'm sure I'll end up seeing it eventually on cable) is because everything I've heard just took the problems the series had and blew them up into two-and-a-half ours on a huge screen.

Besides many of the things you mention (racial politics, "feminism," the treatment of gay characters), one of the big problems I had/have with the show is actually its treatment of men. It's like the producers decided that to be "feminist" meant making a show where the men were treated as the cardboard cut-outs and stereotypes that women have and continue to be treated as in so much male-centered entertainment. The treatment of Smith and Steve in the movie is another reason I don't really want to see the movie; in the series, they were overall good guys that ultimately fit with their female counterparts in a way no other guys during the show did. And maybe it is sexist of me, but I always thought most of Carrie/Big's dysfunction WAS Carrie's fault; she was always pressing for more than she knew Big was willing to give, always poking at him to be what he wasn't, then proceeded to have a meltdown when he turned out to not be able to give her what she already knew he wasn't about to give, and then went back to him anyway to start it all over again.

er... "Archetypes" is what I meant.Gah.

2008-06-08T12:02:00.000-07:00

er... "Archetypes" is what I meant.
Gah.

Gayprof, darn it. I was to go with a crowd of my ...

2008-06-08T12:00:00.000-07:00

Gayprof, darn it. I was to go with a crowd of my girlfriends to see this, and now... well, not only do I basically know what happens, I can't allow myself to enjoy it for the fluff it is.

Although, sometimes, like potato chips, I still enjoy the bad things.

For me? I could never get past the fact that Carrie had money enough to buy $700 shoes. I don't think anyone ever thought these women were real or even archtypes.

I was thinking about the Samantha character the other day; if confidence was all I needed, I would have been having quite a bit more fun the last 10 years.

I'm no fun right now. Grading essays. You of all people know how horrid that is.

Wow...poor Lynda, what a way to ruin a solo sailin...

2008-06-07T13:34:00.000-07:00

Wow...poor Lynda, what a way to ruin a solo sailing excursion. Of course, going solo also means she's alibi-free.

Fortunately, she's also Wonder Woman, so after a dragged out storyline featuring more WW Wanted posters and the briefest of jail stints, we'll find out it was really Dr. Psycho who killed poor Karen and dumped her in the Potomac...in fact, come to think of it, the good Doctor is probably behind "Sex and the City", too.

He always liked his women in traditional, subservient roles.

Chad--what a brilliant observation! Gay men of a ...

2008-06-07T13:04:00.000-07:00

Chad--what a brilliant observation! Gay men of a certain generation will thrill at your comparison of Golden Girls and SATC. I love it!

I very much agree with your assessment of the Sama...

2008-06-07T12:02:00.000-07:00

I very much agree with your assessment of the Samantha storyline, especially since, in the series, she and Smith went through all this more thoughtfully than in the movie, in which Smith was barely a character. They did end up choosing monogamy in the series, but consciously, not because it was expected of them. One always got the idea that that choice could be renegotiated for reasons like the one that came up in the movie. But it was never brought up as an option, and that disappointed me.

Of course, the film was really long already, and a real discussion about monogamy, one that would have to have included Miranda's outrage at Steve, would have made it even longer. I could've done with less City and more Sex, but the writers thought they knew what most of their audience wants: pretty people buying pretty things and being clever about it. While that was always part of the series, the balance was thrown out of whack in the movie.

HEY, I consider myself a third-wave feminist. Sir...

2008-06-07T11:01:00.000-07:00

HEY, I consider myself a third-wave feminist. Sir, you have offended my honor *glove-slap*.

I will say I liked the show in its first few seasons, but once it became obvious that they were situating everyone into traditional monogamous roles I lost interest.

Plus "Sex and the City" is just one big blatant rip-off of the "Golden Girls" (seriously: Miranda = Dorothy, Charlotte = Rose, Samantha = Blanche, and Carrie = a composite of Sophia and Dorothy.)

Only caught part of one episode. Didn't interest ...

2008-06-07T10:37:00.000-07:00

Only caught part of one episode. Didn't interest me much, I'm afraid. At least, I don't have to worry about missing the movie. (Thanks for your review!)

Somebody wake me when Solo-sex and the Wilderness comes out.

Okay, I've seen it now so I was able to finish rea...

2008-06-07T08:24:00.000-07:00

Okay, I've seen it now so I was able to finish reading your review.

I think you're just mad because there were boobies.

yeah, that's pretty much my read of the film. basi...

2008-06-07T06:55:00.000-07:00

yeah, that's pretty much my read of the film. basically, the plot is that the four women need to realize that the reason men fuck up is because they fail. also? ASIAN BABIES will RUIN your LIFE.

it appears that link did not work properly, maybe ...

2008-06-06T23:14:00.000-07:00

it appears that link did not work properly, maybe this one will.

first thank you. finally. sense. I did however hav...

2008-06-06T22:59:00.000-07:00

first thank you. finally. sense. I did however have a brief intellectual moment during the dredge. Faulkner of course - It is a tale/ Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,/ Signifying nothing.

second, a lesbian friend warned me that going to see this epic i'd encounter a bunch of white yuppie women decked out in their finest, high heels and all, twittering like hens in a henhouse. she spoke from experiencing it first hand. it was exactly that. **shutter**

but most importantly, i'm back on your blog so soon since my last visit because i came across this -- http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080607/ap_on_re_us/people_lynda_carter -- and i thought you'd want to know (assuming you weren't already there on the boat with her).

Anon3: And sometimes people are passive and intell...

2008-06-06T14:04:00.000-07:00

Anon3: And sometimes people are passive and intellectually lazy using the excuse that things are "merely entertainment."

Uh - wow. Sometimes entertainment is just entertai...

2008-06-06T13:45:00.000-07:00

Uh - wow.

Sometimes entertainment is just entertainment, and not everyone finds it, well, entertaining. Next.

Dean: Wonder Woman isn't just a comic book. It's a...

2008-06-06T08:34:00.000-07:00

Dean: Wonder Woman isn't just a comic book. It's a philosophy for life.

Olaf: I tend to think that media can do both good and bad things. So, even as SATC upholds some pretty retrograde notions of heterosexuality, it can also advance our views of friendship, women's independence, etc. We, as viewers, take what we want from it and dismiss the bad bits (as we should).

JP: Just imagine if I lived nearby you. You would never see another movie again.

Alan: Yeah, I am totally willing to suspend belief over faster-than-light space travel.

Anon: I am suspicious of anything that claims to be archetypes regardless of the author.

ROG: This is totally a Netflix film.

Anon2: My guess is that SATC passes for what is termed "third wave feminism," which I don't tend to think of as feminism at all.

HisoriAnn: I take your point. We are supposed to see Samantha as happy in the end.

Still, the execution was done badly and left ambiguity (especially in light of the story line mentioned by Anon2 above). Moreover, why couldn't she have a LTR non-monogamous relationship?

GayProf--I mostly agree with your review, although...

2008-06-06T07:47:00.000-07:00

GayProf--I mostly agree with your review, although I disagree with your take on Samantha's happy ending (which it was.) She left Smith not just because of "the sex," but because of "the city" too. She missed New York, and the girlfriends, because they're part of her authentic self, and while she was living all for Smith in California, she was alienated from those parts of herself. I thought it was a happy breakup (albeit with bad dialogue). If only the writers had had the courage to have Carrie dump Mr. Big once and for all...

thank you. about 5 years ago one of my intro stude...

2008-06-05T20:52:00.000-07:00

thank you. about 5 years ago one of my intro students wrote her final on "sex, the city, and true feminism" or some such thing and turned in a copy of the entire first season to accompany it. I watched a random section in which Samantha is too sick to function and has no one to care for her despite a rolodex full of numbers. No one comes. No one cares. She finally gets befriended by the drag queens outside her window who have been exchanging snark with her all night because she cannot sleep with the noise they are making. It was the most pathetic version of "liberation" I had ever seen and I put the video down, never to go back. It's nice to know that my sense that underneath it all this show really is just about consumerism and age old messages packaged in brand new finery was likely true. (And yes, I gave the student an A. She worked hard and made a solid argument in the other direction and since I couldn't bring myself to keep watching who was I to say you fail b/c I disagree?)

I enjoyed watching the series (on its 2nd run on c...

2008-06-05T18:14:00.000-07:00

I enjoyed watching the series (on its 2nd run on cable but not HBO) as the fantasy fluff it was. and i always liked the bond among them. Yet I certainly recognized its flaws, notably the lack of people of color. Haven't seen the film, but it is interesting to note that Samantha DID have chemo, Miranda was always neurotic about the work/life thing, and Carrie's relationship with BIG was always complicated. Maybe I'll see the film - I'm so behind now, though, who knows? - but it sounds like a rental to me.