tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16010478.post8989797342053101455..comments2024-03-22T02:57:20.853-07:00Comments on Center of Gravitas: Pride for SaleGayProfhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11289510184782252498noreply@blogger.comBlogger30125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16010478.post-77218940093740782782007-07-16T22:52:00.000-07:002007-07-16T22:52:00.000-07:00Last line that I left off: I am gay in that I have...Last line that I left off: I am gay in that I have sex and romantic relationships with men, and the only reason I would ever want to be a part of a gay community--the reason such a community even exists!--is that there are some people who would persecute me for that single facet of myself.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16010478.post-8936603401814232492007-07-16T22:47:00.000-07:002007-07-16T22:47:00.000-07:00Eeek. I don't know if I'm too late, but I really w...Eeek. I don't know if I'm too late, but I really want to get in on this sort of discussion!<BR/><BR/>I am a 32 year old gay guy living in Chicago, and I have until last month had exactly 1 gay friend in my life besides boyfriends, and I am that guy's only gay friend besides his husband; in fact he loathes Boystown and refuses to set foot into it. The thing for me is that while I want to support gay rights and gay people, I feel like an outsider in the gay community and have rarely met a gay man I had any interest in befriending. <BR/><BR/>When I go out to gay bars it is because I like beer and I like gay sex. I would like to have a husband so that I wouldn't have to go out to gay bars at all. <BR/><BR/>Aside from the bars, I don't feel any attraction for gay community besides the sense of obligation/guilt for reaping freedoms without contributing to furthering them, and I am interested in finding a way to do that. So far my best option seems to be working in AIDS in some capacity, or at least volunteering. But as far as socializing with gay people, all attempts to do so have been at best boring--I don't enjoy the music that most gay men enjoy, I find the pervasive air of "fabulosity" and drama extremely annoying, and I find there is a lot of backbiting and needless interpersonal strife in groups of gay people.<BR/><BR/>Anyway, I am conflicted: I would like to be a part of a community, but I just wish the community were very at all appealing to me.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16010478.post-87237240906023210132007-06-20T10:50:00.000-07:002007-06-20T10:50:00.000-07:00I'd bet you cash money that our tender young Mika ...I'd bet you cash money that our tender young Mika is constantly coached by his handlers not to come out. <BR/><BR/>I really doubt what he's doing is his choice; he's got record label execs telling him how to be a star. Maybe cut the kid - and all the other young performers and athletes who are at their handlers' mercy - some slack in terms of outing themselves.goblinboxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13636167643991935136noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16010478.post-49798670726801773482007-06-18T11:49:00.000-07:002007-06-18T11:49:00.000-07:00Patashoqua: I am just guessing that the Traveloict...<B>Patashoqua:</B> I am just guessing that the Traveloicty Gnome was not dressed that way with a real sense of irony.<BR/><BR/><B>Chad:</B> The personal is political.GayProfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11289510184782252498noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16010478.post-43324653860063267912007-06-18T09:05:00.000-07:002007-06-18T09:05:00.000-07:00I have to disagree. It's impossible to know all t...I have to disagree. It's impossible to know all the internal stresses and external circumstances an individual goes through, no matter how much scrutiny their lives have. I don't think it's "bad personal politics" to choose ambiguity; it's simply a personal choice, and as such it should be respected.<BR/><BR/>(Now, then there's denying one's homosexuality or bisexuality while being an advocate against gay rights, but to me that's another matter entirely...)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16010478.post-11631372661546246852007-06-18T06:48:00.000-07:002007-06-18T06:48:00.000-07:00I'm right there with you on the advertising. I was...I'm right there with you on the advertising. I was squicked last year to see the Travelocity Gnome decked out in leather-daddy gear all over NY Pride. <BR/><BR/>As for what we're proud of, I always had the sense that it was more of a matter of pride in not losing our humanity or our identities in the face of an oppressive larger society. <BR/><BR/>I've been very fortunate. I'm young(ish), I'm female, I grew up in a city, and my family are all fire-breathing leftists. I have not been much oppressed. I march for two reasons: to support the many who have been, and to feel once a year what it's like to walk among my people.<BR/><BR/>And because, well, it's a hell of a show.<BR/><BR/>Dorian - I agree with you 100% on the "post-gay" and "post-feminist" things. One of my least favorite things about my generation.<BR/><BR/>--PatashoquaAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16010478.post-23432188552010671562007-06-17T09:14:00.000-07:002007-06-17T09:14:00.000-07:00Dorian: "Post gay" people annoy me more than ex-ga...<B>Dorian:</B> "Post gay" people annoy me more than ex-gay people. <BR/><BR/><B>Bill S.:</B> I agree -- Coming out is still the easiest and most effective strategy that we have as individuals to create social change.<BR/><BR/><B>ROG:</B> I didn't mean to imply that Pride wasn't important. I think that it is, but I am concerned that corporate sponsorship is distracting from the political elements of the marches.<BR/><BR/><B>B.:</B> I am proud of you, too!<BR/><BR/><B>Doug:</B> I think that Pride marches do still provide many benefits like the ones that you suggest. This occurs regardless of the corporate sponsorship.<BR/><BR/><B>TornWordo:</B> I would love to see more concrete discussions within the community about the need to be out. <BR/><BR/><B>Josh:</B> I am not going to fault people (queer or otherwise) for having religious beliefs. As long as their beliefs don't result in the infringement on other people's rights or prevent them from thinking critically, I don't conceive religion as a bad thing.<BR/><BR/><B>Earl:</B> I like a good party, too. Sometimes I wonder, though, if we missing those other bits.<BR/><BR/><B>TR:</B> You are right, there have always been conservative queer folk. I also don't want to over romanticize the GLF or the 70s in general (which is another trend). Still, there seems to be less interest in challenging the conservative elements in the queer community than in the past.<BR/><BR/><B>Chad:</B> I have no investment in Morrissey, but I don't think that we can make excuses for people regardless. <BR/><BR/>On the other hand, I think that we are complicated enough to enjoy their music without endorsing their bad personal politics. Freddie Mercury, for instance, creeps me out as a person. He was closeted in terms of sexuality <I>and</I> race <I>and</I> his HIV status. I am not prepared to say "it was just the time." He had the opportunity to fight for people on all of those fronts and declined it. <BR/><BR/>Still, he left an impressive musical legacy that can't be denied either. Acknowledging one does not eradicate the other.<BR/><BR/><B>Teresa:</B> I am hopeful that the queer community is about to wake up from that assimilationist delusion.<BR/><BR/><B>Tom:</B> Somehow I think that I would prefer the lurid version over my own...<BR/><BR/><BR/><B>VUBOQ:</B> As I recall, wasn't it my and Cooper's raving about Mika that prompted you to buy the CD in the first place? <BR/><BR/>If you have already paid for it, I am not sure Mika will really suffer by you not listening to it anymore. It's just a matter of not giving him additional money to support his little closet.<BR/><BR/><B>Bigg:</B> I think that there are many undergraduates who would gladly give up a seat in my class for you if it meant that they <I>didn't</I> have to hear me lecture.<BR/><BR/><B>Marius:</B> I think the speed at which things have changed has left some people forgetting about how much work went into the movement. It also, I think, makes them feel that things are okay when, in fact, there is still a lot of work to be done.<BR/><BR/><B>Les:</B> <I>you can't assimilate and throw a good party</I><BR/><BR/>I think that we have a new slogan for the bumper stickers!<BR/><BR/><B>DykeWife:</B> I agree that Pride events still provide important avenues for the queer community to connect. I just wish that we exercised a bit more control over how we organize those events.<BR/><BR/><B>Marlan:</B> I often hear that Pride Marches were really important for different people as they were first coming out. This suggests to me that they are still profoundly relevant.<BR/><BR/><B>AcademeMama:</B> I am not sure I have the answers to those questions...<BR/><BR/><B>Antonio:</B> Yep -- People who identify as exclusively straight never avoid confirming their hetero-ness.<BR/><BR/><B>This Boy Elroy:</B> Alas, I had high hopes for Mika because he seemed to pay so much homage to Freddie Mercury. It turns out, though, that he is also happy to replicate Mercury's closetedness as well. <I>*sigh*</I>GayProfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11289510184782252498noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16010478.post-90893682593759639722007-06-16T18:07:00.000-07:002007-06-16T18:07:00.000-07:00You hit the nail right on the head with Mika. How...You hit the nail right on the head with Mika. How convenient for him and all the others that take his stance. They keep their queer in the wings for when the career is in the shitter and they need some fast quick press. <BR/><BR/>Mika is just a Freddie Mercury karaoke artist, another exhibit to lend credence to an argument that suggests that originality in the music industry is dead.This Boy Elroyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00430436265377005923noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16010478.post-17360174746345291692007-06-16T14:15:00.000-07:002007-06-16T14:15:00.000-07:00Great post. I'm still a little surprised that the ...Great post. I'm still a little surprised that the "refuse to discuss personal life" thing still works. I guess in some ways it can be helpful. Newspapers and magazines can't print the headline "Clay Aiken confirms he is gay". <BR/><BR/>Even so, every single time I've heard someone refuse to answer the question I've immediately assumed they're gay.Antoniohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13551523252110967405noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16010478.post-53305717051263801422007-06-16T09:50:00.000-07:002007-06-16T09:50:00.000-07:00Thought-provoking post! In fact, it prompted me to...Thought-provoking post! In fact, it prompted me to post my own response and questions.AcadeMamahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15510282285225998011noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16010478.post-54105867214965346192007-06-15T19:52:00.000-07:002007-06-15T19:52:00.000-07:00When I was newly out, (5 yrs. ago) going to Pride ...When I was newly out, (5 yrs. ago) going to Pride in Chicago the first time was great--the spectacle as well as the sense of belonging to a much larger cause. And, I had my shirt off!<BR/><BR/>Locally, it doesn't have the same impact in my (much smaller) town; yet it does bring out a sense of unity in the gay community. So often we focus on the differences we have with each little group: the bears, the leather guys, the twinky dance boys, the softball girls, etc., and we see each other as separate. Pride is one event that shows our diversity and acceptance (grudgingly) of others.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16010478.post-22428282250304894992007-06-15T18:36:00.000-07:002007-06-15T18:36:00.000-07:00i'm going to my very first pride parade tomorrow. ...i'm going to my very first pride parade tomorrow. i'm not going to march or ride on a float, but i'm going to be amongst the throng of people watching. <BR/><BR/>i think the event, though it may have lost some of it's militant and revolutionary edge, is still important to those who are newly coming out, newly finding themselves and working to find a community.dykewifehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17776768691386493709noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16010478.post-8533460532422982652007-06-15T18:12:00.000-07:002007-06-15T18:12:00.000-07:00Did you see the article in TIME mag (liked by Mark...Did you see the article in TIME mag (liked by Mark Evanier here: http://www.newsfromme.com/archives/<BR/>2007_06_15.html), suggesting that the gay revolution has been all but won?Roger Owen Greenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05298172138307632062noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16010478.post-41574997717510863452007-06-15T17:52:00.000-07:002007-06-15T17:52:00.000-07:00Of course, if you REALLY wanted to go to a Pride M...Of course, if you REALLY wanted to go to a Pride March, you could go down to NYC next weekend.Roger Owen Greenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05298172138307632062noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16010478.post-52151413548931055092007-06-15T13:44:00.000-07:002007-06-15T13:44:00.000-07:00Thanks for posting this, Gay Prof.I haven't been t...Thanks for posting this, Gay Prof.<BR/><BR/>I haven't been to a pride march in a few years. When they sold out, they got boring. <BR/><BR/>Vodka and rainbow shit. *yawn* you can't assimilate and throw a good party. Also, some folks just can't assimilate. (nobody would ever mistake me for a stright grrl)Charles Céleste Hutchinshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18123138871494922485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16010478.post-42266878103970801832007-06-15T13:02:00.000-07:002007-06-15T13:02:00.000-07:00The closet rewards one person, being out benefits ...<I>The closet rewards one person, being out benefits the entire queer community.</I><BR/><BR/>I couldn't agree more. It took me a while to realize that for myself. As you mentioned, homosexuality was once considered a mental illness by the APA. Fortunately, many gay men and women fought this label with a passion that is rarely seen today. I find it strange that gay men and women don't realize the significance of the APA's decision to remove homosexuality from the DSM. We owe a lot to the activists who risked so much for us. The fight isn't over. <BR/><BR/>Great post!Mariushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14606970820680869047noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16010478.post-75983533781971268082007-06-15T12:58:00.000-07:002007-06-15T12:58:00.000-07:00Living in a part of the country that it still most...Living in a part of the country that it still mostly of a hatefully homophobic mindset, I think I probably view Pride events (which, for the record, I've never been able to attend) a little differently. <BR/>Out here in fly-over country, being a known homosexual can still get you fired from your job, harrassed on a daily basis, and even killed. Marching in a parade takes the ultimate set of guts, because straight people definitely attend on a "day-at-the-zoo" basis. Out here, Pride is still definitely a revolutionary act.<BR/>With that said, I'd love to hear you lecture someday, Gayprof. This was wonderfully written.Bigghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01142387994755864057noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16010478.post-34301964145743321032007-06-15T12:42:00.000-07:002007-06-15T12:42:00.000-07:00now i feel all guilty about listening to my Mika C...now i feel all guilty about listening to my Mika CD ... *le sigh*vuboqhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17713707780151175505noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16010478.post-63042009660317107942007-06-15T09:45:00.000-07:002007-06-15T09:45:00.000-07:00I am momentarily regretting the dissolution of my ...I am momentarily regretting the dissolution of my blog, because if it were still around I could point to my inarticulate rant about sexual oppression and not wanting to be assimilated into mainstream anything anymore—the post where I was mad about the security staff of a certain New York "leather" bar appearing whenever my fly opens. You've stated the case a lot better, if less luridly.Redhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12285634258309434939noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16010478.post-83592003295516152032007-06-15T08:15:00.000-07:002007-06-15T08:15:00.000-07:00That was a very thoughtful and interesting post. T...That was a very thoughtful and interesting post. The assimilationist trend in gay politics is mired in delusion, as far as I'm concerned. I'm not interested in being a beggar at that particular table.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13656729462144768052noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16010478.post-986439505152243942007-06-15T07:23:00.000-07:002007-06-15T07:23:00.000-07:00The thing about Morrissey is that his ambiguity re...The thing about Morrissey is that his ambiguity resulted from genuine confusion and was not a deliberate career choice. God knows Morrissey has never really been that bothered by his public image.<BR/><BR/><I>Some queers become so invested in trying to ensure their own shaky position that they disown other queer folk who don’t fit with mainstream expectations.</I><BR/><BR/>I read that and instantly thought of all the gay personals where the writer declared that he was "straight acting." I can sympathize with wanting to distance oneself from stereotypes, especially since we still exist in a society where "experts" are shown on mainstream television news outlets, declaring that they've "scientifically proven" that lesbians really are masculine and gays really are effeminate. But there's something tragic about someone who is revolted by the idea that someone will guess that they are gay. It doesn't speak well to the health of the LGBT community.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16010478.post-9607278668453220412007-06-15T07:06:00.000-07:002007-06-15T07:06:00.000-07:00Nice post, Gayprof. For my Politics of Sex after ...Nice post, Gayprof. For my Politics of Sex after Stonewall course this year I re-read and taught an essay from Allan Young and Karla Jaye's important early collection, <I>Out of the Closets and Into the Streets</I>, which is still a relevant book. I taugh Allan's essay, in which he says memorably, "We will not go straight until you go gay!" which struck me as highly relevant to the assimilation-through-affluence model you refer to. Plenty of queers *have* gone straight, as you point out.<BR/><BR/>That said -- the queer business community has always been pretty conservative, I think. <BR/><BR/>TRTenured Radicalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05703980598547163290noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16010478.post-65318657863832767782007-06-15T06:49:00.000-07:002007-06-15T06:49:00.000-07:00I'm for both the political and entertainment aspec...I'm for both the political and entertainment aspects of Gay Pride events. Big fabulous parades, small town picnics, parties, speeches, rallies, grandstands. It's our Liberation Day. A time for outrageous celebration as well as for somber reflection and calls to action.Earl Cootiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13204523494279709530noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16010478.post-34327019831333210792007-06-15T05:59:00.000-07:002007-06-15T05:59:00.000-07:00I'm not sure if Prides are as far gone as all that...I'm not sure if Prides are as far gone as all that. Just looking at the Boston Pride lineup, there were a few politicians and a few companies. But what really overwhelmed me was the number of churches and other faith based groups. What's your take on that trend? Part of the mainstreaming of gaydom or something else entirely?<BR/><BR/>PS One big upside of joining the mainstream would be having a kid to put this bib on: http://www.northlandposter.com/catalog/bb02.html<BR/>How can you resist that?Joshhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04104857692837379087noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16010478.post-57255085367456978432007-06-15T05:03:00.000-07:002007-06-15T05:03:00.000-07:00I'm not a big fan of the parades. They are boring ...I'm not a big fan of the parades. They are boring now. We should be having rallies instead by now. (I do like a party with my brethren, however.)<BR/><BR/>Come out Come out wherever you are! That's the first chant of the rally. What do you think? Let's start a movement. Only when "out" is no longer a career liability will everyone do it.tornwordohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16581361982939423598noreply@blogger.com